But once they got past 3 months in the freezer, the bitterness disappeared, and the flavor kept improving with time. Related Links:  The Pineapple Juice Solution, Part 1 | The Fresh Loaf   Lactic Acid Fermentation in Sourdough | The Fresh Loaf   Basic Procedure for Making Sourdough Starter | Cooks Talk. Thanks. That's my theory for why SFSD isn't popular among bakeries any more -- that and the relatively short shelf life. Maybe some of those changes enhance or magnify the tongue's ability to pick out the acid notes from among the other flavors. The quote I pulled encompasses all spores in a general way, but it was because low pH is sited as a common activator that it caught my attention. But, if at the same time you increase the feeding frequency, you can also acheive the opposite effect. What did I do differently? The Fresh Loaf is not responsible for community member content. When you keep feeding, it transforms into a type I sourdough, which is the kind most people here are aiming for. They are transient and can't persist in a type I starter. Again, what is best for the bread is not necessarily the same thing as what's best for the microorganisms. LAB stands for Lactic Acid Bacteria, which is a large group of bacteria that all produce lactic acid while fermenting sugars. spoiled milk. They used it all up either for baking bread or for propagating the sponge. Never had real sfsd from the 70s so if that is a true representation of the flavor, it may be worth a try. Did it also fail in breads leavened with commercial yeast? They all know that I bake, but my family and friends really have no clue that I have this whole other "secret life." Is it possible to get stuck in a phase and have a starter that appears healthy and alive? I think you also make a case for keeping just one starter. We know that in S.F. I was doing some reading and I am not sure of the direction I should be going. But not knowing exactly where they come from or what they need to become active, I'd only be speculating that you can hurry them along. This was with just plain water --- no pineapple juice. If it was 1 of multiple flours, I might suspect the flour; but if all whole wheat flours, I suspect the method or the conditions. In the late fall/early winter of 2004, I was coaching a group of women on Cookstalk, Taunton's Fine Cooking forum, and I noticed something else. I did not care how it worked or why, it just worked. The populations grow and multiply slowly, and at different related rates---some so slowly that they might be flushed out by successive feeding over time, and conditions may change so as to allow different species to dominate. It and my old refrigerated starter smell strongly of ethanol, so it's difficult to discern a yeast aroma. My starters sort of liquefy the day before yeast starts to grow. this should be an interesting experiment. These are signs that heterofermentative lactobacilli have picked up the baton. Thank You for taking the time and effort to not only answer but to really explain the hows and whys. This phase usually lasts about one day, sometimes two. The lactobacilli certainly fall under that heading, but so do many other genera, including Leuconostoc, Weissella, Pediococcus, and many others that are commonly found in sourdoughs and other fermented or spoiled foods. I wasn't the only one who noticed. Most will not grow below pH 4.8, and this one doesn't appear to be an exception. Then there are homofermentative lactobacilli (good lactic acid producers, but they don't produce gas or acetic acid), then acid-tolerant, heterofermentative lactobacilli that make lactic and acetic acid, as well as CO2. The shaded areas represent the ranges commonly encountered during sourdough fermentations. Error bars indicate the standard deviations from the means of three independent experiments. You cited Lsan. It would seem to me that if it is healthy it would not really matter if it was kept at 100% or 60%, the organisms we want would be there and would do their thing in the preferment. Mike, it's good to hear your starter has taken off. (Or use water if you prefer, and don't mind the odors and delay.) Sourdough culture IS  science,...not Hokey Pokey. Cook's Illustrated also uses vinegar to simplify the bread-making process, although they it as an improvement to Jim Lahey's method. Pineapple juice can be added to flour instead Thank you Debra! The problem arose when I tasted the bread. Does the temp from 70 to 80 matter. I started a new starter thinking this was the cause until I read this paragraph. Then the initial recipe might be reduced to read:  Instant Sourdough >>  2 drops potion #9, 2 Tbs Pineapple juice, 2 Tbs whole flour! I got yeast activation on day 2 that way with citric acid.About 24 Hours In... there are no bubbles anywhere and no leuconostoc odor. But I find that wild yeast don't activate until the pH drops to around 3.5, or at least less than 4. You can try to coax them into growing, with food and all the things you may fancy to be good for actively growing yeast. Procedures that call for two or three feedings per day, or large refreshments before yeast are active, can actually get in the way of the process. Hydration is one of those things that influences relative growth rates.

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